This is quite a different kind of story you got now. This was, more or less, kind of the vibe I got when you first pitched this story to the class at the beginning of the semester (and then in more detail when you and I talked about it).
I think that the character's here are FAR more fleshed out then in the last draft. I know who each of them are, and care about them far more now (which is important). There were some problems with the characters though that I feel I need to address.
I feel that in this draft, Oliver Morrison is the main character. He has the most character development over the course of the script, and we get the to know his back-story far more. This may be how you want it (which is fine!), but I just know what attracted you to this story in the first place was the 2 brothers.
I feel that we don’t know enough about James and Thomas by this point. We know that they are young boys who are really just minding their business out in the woods and are then called into action. I just feel that they need to have more stakes here… What happened to them not knowing about the draft in the first place? That was a story element that REALLY interested me because even though they were involved in a pretty horrible shootout, they may never have really been guilty (sheriff and his men could of just showed up guns a blazing and they were just defending themselves).
Perhaps you could make it so the father knows about the draft, but with his thoughts on war (losing his own leg in combat and serving for over 10 years), doesn’t tell the boys and tries to keep them out of it. It would make that shootout much more powerful cause James and Thomas would have no idea why they were being shot at.
Finally, with the character of the Sheriff, and all the other deputies… they come across as straight up villains, when really all they are doing is just their jobs. I understand that some people feel much more strongly about your duty to you country then others (like Burke); other people hated the draft as much as the people being served their papers (maybe like the Sheriff). You kind of touch upon the Sheriff and Morrison’ past relationship… so maybe you could make it more meaningful. Like they were old friends and the Sheriff feels really bad about doing his job. Add more conflict here and it should be awesome!
I REALLY do think that this draft is a giant step in the right direction here… and I am aware that you are running out of time on this (I know you wanted to shoot over the summer), but with some more character work, this is going to be one hell of a film. I am really excited to be a part of this man!
Lots of changes here, looks good. I also agree with Ian here. I feel like I barely know the brothers situation or story. If you were to add some background info, and maybe build up the conflict the father and the sheriff have been in; it would make the stakes much higher. Then we really would be on our toes for the shoot-out between all the characters.
Great new draft. The beginning really had me going and I already want to keep reading. Nice job setting all that up right away, that is very important for a short story.
pg 2- little bit of an awkward like here by Burke "Why not you and I go have a conversation with 'em then?" did you mean "Why don't you and I go..."?
pg 3- I think the Father should say "Can I help you?" instead of "Who are you?" because the US Marshall will most likely be wearing some sort of indication that he is a man of the law. The tone he uses on the line can be that of the same as it was for "Who are you"
pg 6- Father's line "A righteous stands up for what he believes in" Did you mean "A righteous MAN stands up"?
pg 7- "Sheriff, please. He's A broken down old man"
I think this version of the script. It actually has the elements you were talking about when you originally pitched the idea. I noticed you changed your writers, this script is better. Some areas could be tweaked to smooth out the rough spots but I am definitely liking the path you are now taking. This is a great introduction for a feature too! If you wanted to use this piece as a tangible marketing tool to present to investors.
All I could think of during the opening scene was the opening of Kill Bill. It seems REALLY similar. Especially since you show a little bit of it in the beginning then show the full scene again later. Not that it's necessarily bad to do something similar to another director. I know you have your own idea in mind. Just thought I'd share that.
Gonna be a pretty awesome, fast paced flick! I'm pretty psyched! Unfortunately I can't think of much that hasn't already been said by Ian and Lucas. I know Danielle is doing your makeup already, but if you need any other help let me know! Sounds like it'll be fun!
1: Great opening. Great quote from Martin Luther. 4: I'm really into this story. Such a big difference between this draft and last! Good job. 11: Why does the sheriff address the boys with his first line and not the father directly? It's odd to me that he doesn't speak directly to the father bc in the last scene they were on good terms. Overall, this was a huge improvement! It left me wanting more! Really good job!
Pg1 - I hate the "No, please" line. It just rings so cheezy for me. I think you're better off with, gun appears, shocked look, KABLAM....and that's all she wrote.
Pg1 - Now, I'm assuming this guy gets killed because he was a draft dodger. Is that really feasible? Were people really going around capping draft dodgers or just trying to arrest em. I mean, you can pull it off to take artistic license and make kind of an evil mofo.
Pg2 - I guess one note. I liked the idea of doing somethign weird like the idea of making a kind of documentary western. Oh well....
Pg4 - It's all on the surface. You have to say too much. We're poor. I lost my leg. I served my country. You can't take my boys. It's way too heavy handed. Tone it down and get your point across with a little more subtlety
Pg5 - Same problem.
This makes no sense. He says he volunteered. A man who is that committed to his country would want his sons to fight. And back then, during the time period people were gungho about such things. You can have him not want his sons to go, but you need to change the character up. Right now the motivation for him not wanting his sons to go isn't strong enough and doesn't make complete sense.
Pg10 - I'm just not buying that a US Marshall would be so quick to kill because these guys are dodging. Wouldn't they arrest or force them into the army. YOu need to flesh out the bad guy more. I need to understand why he's such an evil motherfucker. He needs to have more reason to want to bust some caps in their ass
I don't get your ending. Nothing is really solved. It's like the start to a much longer story. You need an ending. Something needs to have been solved or learned. The main characters haven't grown in anyway, nor did the bad guy. The characters just were. And the decision not to kill them and show mercy? Why? What reason other than that you want to keep them alive in the story. You need more.
You've got an interesting story, but it's not there yet.
Definitely loving this version of the script. It's much more cinematic and the story is more intriguing.
Pg 5: The dad's dialogue of "Duty. I got this--" just doesn't ring right in response to what Thomas said prior. I don't know it exactly but it seems awkward, at least on the page. Also, "Father" changed to "Papa" during this page.
A lot of his lines actually felt a bit off. Not sure what it is, but I didn't really feel for his character when he talked about his sacrifices.
I do agree with Chris that the ending feels like the start of something bigger. This would be a damn fine opening for a film, but in terms of resolution, I don't think I'm quite satisfied with it. Maybe a final scene with Thomas and James exchanging some words as to where to go next, or something. Have one of those on-screen text over black that tell what happened to them after this whole ordeal.
Overall though, really do like the new direction it took.
This is way different from your last draft. It seems like a completely different story. I can't say I liked one better than the other because they are so different.
There were a couple things I was a little confused about. I'm guessing the beginning scene is a flash forward to the next day. Ellroy says "No, please." when he has the gun to his head. I was kinda wondering where that was in the ending after he reaches down to his gunshot wound in his stomach. I'm not sure if I just mis-read it.
The dialogue is really believable to me. I didnt really think about whether or not draft dodging would lead to a shootout. I totally bought it because the story is really good. The ending left me wanting a little bit more - consequences or character progression as I think Chris said in his post. I like the in true Western fashion they ride off into the sunset but maybe there is something more than can lead up to this ending. Other than that, I like what you have done with it! Nice work!
So yes, like you told me, quite a significant change here. I don't even feel like making a comment like "great improvement from your first draft" because to me, this is like an entirely new script (not that that is a bad thing), so I'm going to comment on it as such.
This focuses in on that initial story you built your first script around, and it's an interesting one for sure so I'm with ya on taking your film in that direction, telling that story. I look at this like your 1st-draft-take-two, and for a first draft it's good. You've got the general plot of your story laid down and it's got some nice character relations/developments. I particularly enjoy the focus on the father/sons setup for both the main characters and the Sheriff and Ellroy - it's an interesting parallel between the law and the law-breakers, and it kinda makes them seem like one in the same despite the conflict. Then you have the Marshal, the one true bad guy that puts the conflict into motion. So the pieces are there, now you need to work to get them all to fit together seamlessly.
What I mean by that I think fits in pretty closely with some of Chris' comments. All of these characters' decisions need to be really fleshed out (which means themselves as characters need to be fleshed out so we believe and understand those decisions) because right now some of the moves they make, while they work, come off as illogical and rash. For example, Chris makes a good point about the Father's motivation for not wanting to have his son's fight even though he volunteered to fight when he was young. Those pieces are right - the father having a history with war, not wanting to send his sons off - but they need to be put together in a way that works better for your overall story. Apply that mindset to your other characters and their decisions (like the Marshal - we need to know why he is such a bad guy, why he makes the decisions he does) and I think your story will suddenly get that much better.
Also, I think a lot of the dialogue could be made stronger. It works as is, but this is an interesting set of characters and I feel like they need more "voice." Either work with your writer or even another writer who is good with dialogue to take what you've got and make it smoother/better.
Overall, I'm happy to see this new take on your capstone,(even though I was intrigued by your last script) you gotta make the film you want to make and if this is it, then go for it. You just gotta really buckle down now, though. This is headed in the right direction, but let's be honest with the semester almost over it's time to crank this script out and get into some heavy pre-pro, dude. Do it to it!
The beginning. Unless I missed something, this doesn't make sense once we've gotten to the end of your film. At first it's implied that Ellroy gets shot d-e-d. But then, at the end of the script, not only does he live, but the dialogue from the beginning doesn't even match up with the dialogue at the end (No, please). What you could do, and maybe this is what you were thinking but just didn't get down on paper, is still imply that he is killed in the beginning, cutting just as we hear a gunshot after seeing the revolver at his head. Once we hit the end of the script, you've got to transition into that opening scene in every way - it's gotta match up visually, shot-selection-wise, cutting-wise and like I said, dialogue-wise. This way the audience knows we're back where we started and ohhh shit he's gonna get killed. But then, maybe Thomas with his gun pointed at Ellroy's head, shifts his gun just to the side of Ellroy and fires, purposely missing. He doesn't kill Ellroy, but you've still got your opening gun shot.
And this just popped up into my head as well. With the way the story worked and the relationship between the father and his sons, I personally feel like the two boys should be a bit younger, just barely over 18. It would also make more sense why the war would be that much more of a scary thing for them/their dad and also why they'd listen to their father without any fighting back, because they're still relatively young and naive.
BRIAN! Love it!!! I really do like this story a lot! It feels to me like it flows very naturally. The dialogue all feels real, nothing forced at all!
The "no please" ...I think would be a lot stronger without any dialogue. Maybe just a reaction with the guys eyes saying "no please" but not verbally saying it. Just a thought
I feel we need to see a little more from the bad side. We have a great idea of the good guys, but I'd like to see a little more depth behind these guys.
I really think all the changes you made were for the best. I think you are set on most of your script now just need to bust that journal out!!!
Completely different story you've got here i see. I'm glad you changed things up. This story is much more heartfelt and compelling story. Especially now with wars that have been going on around us. it hits many very close to home. The characters flow more and the dialogue seems very natural. I think that you can always tweak it to make it a bit better. Maybe give them a little bit more character. But great job on a completely knew script.
pg 2 - The sheriff refers to the US marshal as "Marshall Burke" here, but I think it would be more natural to cut his name and just introduce it to the audience when he introduces himself to the father on pg 3.
pg 4 - Wondering what the missing leg will look like/how you're going to shoot it (with a camera...not a gun)?
pg 5 - Papa, father, Oliver...pick one.
pg 8 - Alright, their father is trying to keep them out of the war because he doesn't want them to get hurt like he did (in addition to thinking the law is unfair), but then he shows them his guns and tells them not to shoot first - he's anticipating a gun fight with the marshals - how is this different from them being in war? He's knowingly putting his sons in danger by doing this, it would make more sense if he tried to keep them out of it and they joined in during the showdown and started shooting then.
Hm, well, not to seem like a bitch, but Brian it seems like a scene, not a whole movie. It's just one big fight sequence and little else. There needs to be more story somewhere and more sympathy for the brothers - right now I have the most sympathy for the sheriff and his son, don't really care what happens to the boys. I liked the old script more :( but I understand how difficult (expensive) that one would've been to pull off.
Hey buddy,
ReplyDeleteThis is quite a different kind of story you got now. This was, more or less, kind of the vibe I got when you first pitched this story to the class at the beginning of the semester (and then in more detail when you and I talked about it).
I think that the character's here are FAR more fleshed out then in the last draft. I know who each of them are, and care about them far more now (which is important). There were some problems with the characters though that I feel I need to address.
I feel that in this draft, Oliver Morrison is the main character. He has the most character development over the course of the script, and we get the to know his back-story far more. This may be how you want it (which is fine!), but I just know what attracted you to this story in the first place was the 2 brothers.
I feel that we don’t know enough about James and Thomas by this point. We know that they are young boys who are really just minding their business out in the woods and are then called into action. I just feel that they need to have more stakes here… What happened to them not knowing about the draft in the first place? That was a story element that REALLY interested me because even though they were involved in a pretty horrible shootout, they may never have really been guilty (sheriff and his men could of just showed up guns a blazing and they were just defending themselves).
Perhaps you could make it so the father knows about the draft, but with his thoughts on war (losing his own leg in combat and serving for over 10 years), doesn’t tell the boys and tries to keep them out of it. It would make that shootout much more powerful cause James and Thomas would have no idea why they were being shot at.
Finally, with the character of the Sheriff, and all the other deputies… they come across as straight up villains, when really all they are doing is just their jobs. I understand that some people feel much more strongly about your duty to you country then others (like Burke); other people hated the draft as much as the people being served their papers (maybe like the Sheriff). You kind of touch upon the Sheriff and Morrison’ past relationship… so maybe you could make it more meaningful. Like they were old friends and the Sheriff feels really bad about doing his job. Add more conflict here and it should be awesome!
I REALLY do think that this draft is a giant step in the right direction here… and I am aware that you are running out of time on this (I know you wanted to shoot over the summer), but with some more character work, this is going to be one hell of a film. I am really excited to be a part of this man!
Lots of changes here, looks good. I also agree with Ian here. I feel like I barely know the brothers situation or story. If you were to add some background info, and maybe build up the conflict the father and the sheriff have been in; it would make the stakes much higher. Then we really would be on our toes for the shoot-out between all the characters.
ReplyDeleteLooks good though
Great new draft. The beginning really had me going and I already want to keep reading. Nice job setting all that up right away, that is very important for a short story.
ReplyDeletepg 2- little bit of an awkward like here by Burke "Why not you and I go have a conversation with 'em then?" did you mean "Why don't you and I go..."?
pg 3- I think the Father should say "Can I help you?" instead of "Who are you?" because the US Marshall will most likely be wearing some sort of indication that he is a man of the law. The tone he uses on the line can be that of the same as it was for "Who are you"
pg 6- Father's line "A righteous stands up for what he believes in" Did you mean "A righteous MAN stands up"?
pg 7- "Sheriff, please. He's A broken down old man"
I think this version of the script. It actually has the elements you were talking about when you originally pitched the idea. I noticed you changed your writers, this script is better. Some areas could be tweaked to smooth out the rough spots but I am definitely liking the path you are now taking. This is a great introduction for a feature too! If you wanted to use this piece as a tangible marketing tool to present to investors.
All I could think of during the opening scene was the opening of Kill Bill. It seems REALLY similar. Especially since you show a little bit of it in the beginning then show the full scene again later. Not that it's necessarily bad to do something similar to another director. I know you have your own idea in mind. Just thought I'd share that.
ReplyDeleteGonna be a pretty awesome, fast paced flick! I'm pretty psyched! Unfortunately I can't think of much that hasn't already been said by Ian and Lucas. I know Danielle is doing your makeup already, but if you need any other help let me know! Sounds like it'll be fun!
1: Great opening. Great quote from Martin Luther.
ReplyDelete4: I'm really into this story. Such a big difference between this draft and last! Good job.
11: Why does the sheriff address the boys with his first line and not the father directly? It's odd to me that he doesn't speak directly to the father bc in the last scene they were on good terms.
Overall, this was a huge improvement! It left me wanting more! Really good job!
Pg1 - I hate the "No, please" line. It just rings so cheezy for me. I think you're better off with, gun appears, shocked look, KABLAM....and that's all she wrote.
ReplyDeletePg1 - Now, I'm assuming this guy gets killed because he was a draft dodger. Is that really feasible? Were people really going around capping draft dodgers or just trying to arrest em. I mean, you can pull it off to take artistic license and make kind of an evil mofo.
Pg2 - I guess one note. I liked the idea of doing somethign weird like the idea of making a kind of documentary western. Oh well....
Pg4 - It's all on the surface. You have to say too much. We're poor. I lost my leg. I served my country. You can't take my boys. It's way too heavy handed. Tone it down and get your point across with a little more subtlety
Pg5 - Same problem.
This makes no sense. He says he volunteered. A man who is that committed to his country would want his sons to fight. And back then, during the time period people were gungho about such things. You can have him not want his sons to go, but you need to change the character up. Right now the motivation for him not wanting his sons to go isn't strong enough and doesn't make complete sense.
Pg10 - I'm just not buying that a US Marshall would be so quick to kill because these guys are dodging. Wouldn't they arrest or force them into the army. YOu need to flesh out the bad guy more. I need to understand why he's such an evil motherfucker. He needs to have more reason to want to bust some caps in their ass
I don't get your ending. Nothing is really solved. It's like the start to a much longer story. You need an ending. Something needs to have been solved or learned. The main characters haven't grown in anyway, nor did the bad guy. The characters just were. And the decision not to kill them and show mercy? Why? What reason other than that you want to keep them alive in the story. You need more.
You've got an interesting story, but it's not there yet.
Definitely loving this version of the script. It's much more cinematic and the story is more intriguing.
ReplyDeletePg 5: The dad's dialogue of "Duty. I got this--" just doesn't ring right in response to what Thomas said prior. I don't know it exactly but it seems awkward, at least on the page. Also, "Father" changed to "Papa" during this page.
A lot of his lines actually felt a bit off. Not sure what it is, but I didn't really feel for his character when he talked about his sacrifices.
I do agree with Chris that the ending feels like the start of something bigger. This would be a damn fine opening for a film, but in terms of resolution, I don't think I'm quite satisfied with it. Maybe a final scene with Thomas and James exchanging some words as to where to go next, or something. Have one of those on-screen text over black that tell what happened to them after this whole ordeal.
Overall though, really do like the new direction it took.
Brian,
ReplyDeleteThis is way different from your last draft. It seems like a completely different story. I can't say I liked one better than the other because they are so different.
There were a couple things I was a little confused about. I'm guessing the beginning scene is a flash forward to the next day. Ellroy says "No, please." when he has the gun to his head. I was kinda wondering where that was in the ending after he reaches down to his gunshot wound in his stomach. I'm not sure if I just mis-read it.
The dialogue is really believable to me. I didnt really think about whether or not draft dodging would lead to a shootout. I totally bought it because the story is really good. The ending left me wanting a little bit more - consequences or character progression as I think Chris said in his post. I like the in true Western fashion they ride off into the sunset but maybe there is something more than can lead up to this ending. Other than that, I like what you have done with it! Nice work!
So yes, like you told me, quite a significant change here. I don't even feel like making a comment like "great improvement from your first draft" because to me, this is like an entirely new script (not that that is a bad thing), so I'm going to comment on it as such.
ReplyDeleteThis focuses in on that initial story you built your first script around, and it's an interesting one for sure so I'm with ya on taking your film in that direction, telling that story. I look at this like your 1st-draft-take-two, and for a first draft it's good. You've got the general plot of your story laid down and it's got some nice character relations/developments. I particularly enjoy the focus on the father/sons setup for both the main characters and the Sheriff and Ellroy - it's an interesting parallel between the law and the law-breakers, and it kinda makes them seem like one in the same despite the conflict. Then you have the Marshal, the one true bad guy that puts the conflict into motion. So the pieces are there, now you need to work to get them all to fit together seamlessly.
What I mean by that I think fits in pretty closely with some of Chris' comments. All of these characters' decisions need to be really fleshed out (which means themselves as characters need to be fleshed out so we believe and understand those decisions) because right now some of the moves they make, while they work, come off as illogical and rash. For example, Chris makes a good point about the Father's motivation for not wanting to have his son's fight even though he volunteered to fight when he was young. Those pieces are right - the father having a history with war, not wanting to send his sons off - but they need to be put together in a way that works better for your overall story. Apply that mindset to your other characters and their decisions (like the Marshal - we need to know why he is such a bad guy, why he makes the decisions he does) and I think your story will suddenly get that much better.
Also, I think a lot of the dialogue could be made stronger. It works as is, but this is an interesting set of characters and I feel like they need more "voice." Either work with your writer or even another writer who is good with dialogue to take what you've got and make it smoother/better.
Overall, I'm happy to see this new take on your capstone,(even though I was intrigued by your last script) you gotta make the film you want to make and if this is it, then go for it. You just gotta really buckle down now, though. This is headed in the right direction, but let's be honest with the semester almost over it's time to crank this script out and get into some heavy pre-pro, dude. Do it to it!
Oh, also, one more thing.
ReplyDeleteThe beginning. Unless I missed something, this doesn't make sense once we've gotten to the end of your film. At first it's implied that Ellroy gets shot d-e-d. But then, at the end of the script, not only does he live, but the dialogue from the beginning doesn't even match up with the dialogue at the end (No, please). What you could do, and maybe this is what you were thinking but just didn't get down on paper, is still imply that he is killed in the beginning, cutting just as we hear a gunshot after seeing the revolver at his head. Once we hit the end of the script, you've got to transition into that opening scene in every way - it's gotta match up visually, shot-selection-wise, cutting-wise and like I said, dialogue-wise. This way the audience knows we're back where we started and ohhh shit he's gonna get killed. But then, maybe Thomas with his gun pointed at Ellroy's head, shifts his gun just to the side of Ellroy and fires, purposely missing. He doesn't kill Ellroy, but you've still got your opening gun shot.
And this just popped up into my head as well. With the way the story worked and the relationship between the father and his sons, I personally feel like the two boys should be a bit younger, just barely over 18. It would also make more sense why the war would be that much more of a scary thing for them/their dad and also why they'd listen to their father without any fighting back, because they're still relatively young and naive.
That's all I got, I think.
BRIAN!
ReplyDeleteLove it!!! I really do like this story a lot! It feels to me like it flows very naturally. The dialogue all feels real, nothing forced at all!
The "no please" ...I think would be a lot stronger without any dialogue. Maybe just a reaction with the guys eyes saying "no please" but not verbally saying it. Just a thought
I feel we need to see a little more from the bad side. We have a great idea of the good guys, but I'd like to see a little more depth behind these guys.
I really think all the changes you made were for the best. I think you are set on most of your script now just need to bust that journal out!!!
Completely different story you've got here i see. I'm glad you changed things up. This story is much more heartfelt and compelling story. Especially now with wars that have been going on around us. it hits many very close to home. The characters flow more and the dialogue seems very natural. I think that you can always tweak it to make it a bit better. Maybe give them a little bit more character. But great job on a completely knew script.
ReplyDeleteGreat feedback gang, Now its all about making the current tweaks needed!!
ReplyDeletepg 2 - The sheriff refers to the US marshal as "Marshall Burke" here, but I think it would be more natural to cut his name and just introduce it to the audience when he introduces himself to the father on pg 3.
ReplyDeletepg 4 - Wondering what the missing leg will look like/how you're going to shoot it (with a camera...not a gun)?
pg 5 - Papa, father, Oliver...pick one.
pg 8 - Alright, their father is trying to keep them out of the war because he doesn't want them to get hurt like he did (in addition to thinking the law is unfair), but then he shows them his guns and tells them not to shoot first - he's anticipating a gun fight with the marshals - how is this different from them being in war? He's knowingly putting his sons in danger by doing this, it would make more sense if he tried to keep them out of it and they joined in during the showdown and started shooting then.
Hm, well, not to seem like a bitch, but Brian it seems like a scene, not a whole movie. It's just one big fight sequence and little else. There needs to be more story somewhere and more sympathy for the brothers - right now I have the most sympathy for the sheriff and his son, don't really care what happens to the boys. I liked the old script more :( but I understand how difficult (expensive) that one would've been to pull off.